All shows are what you make of them. We are members of an all make, all model, non-MCA club. Obviously, I don't know all the ins and outs of MCA rules and politics; and I know the hosting club had nightmare after nightmare with the weather and a less than courteous show location, but I feel many details were overlooked.
We drove 6.5 of our 8 hour trip on Wednesday and stayed over near Hickory. Arrived at the CP Thursday at about 12:30. There were many people milling around the lobby area but I couldn't find anyone from the hosting club. There was a schedule of sorts near the buffet but nothing about the MCA (it was worded National Mustang Club - to which I ignored as I just figured there was a participating group using a meeting room). Went to the lobby 15 minutes early for the cruise to the Doubletree, no hosting club rep to be found. Went outside, no one there. Loaded up and headed over there ourselves. There wasn't a police escort to the Biltmore, so everyone was split up again. Lined up in lot C and someone came by and asked if we had our dinner tickets. Tickets??? Where were we supposed to get those? We didn't, but they did so all was good. Dinner was good & the fireworks went off so that was a bonus. Both cars parked in the “very” back on the side so you can’t see either one in the picture; oh well.
Friday - a little background... the last Biltmore show we arrived about noon on Friday and were placed in lot B. It was awful. No food (other than frou-frou stuff hubby wouldn't eat) and we were stuck there until we were judged which wasn't until 5:00 pm. Needless to say, it wasn't pleasant. Similar scenario in Waldorf as well. Hubby wasn't judged until 5:30 pm (lost judging sheet). This time we were bound and determined it would be better. Lined up with our friends at 6:30 and were #'s 5 & 6. My only gripe was the guy that by-passed the picture area and ended up parked in-between us and our friends (we arrived together for a reason). Had a great afternoon at a RRC event and then back to the hotel to start cleaning the dirty cars.
Saturday - to the cars at 5:30 am. Cleaned, cleaned and cleaned some more. Thinking we were golden in lot A in spots 5 & 6, we would be judged early. Ugh, no! Once again, 4:00 pm. All day, cleaning, cleaning and cleaning. We even cleaned the under carriages as no one informed us that it wasn't being judged. No breakfast, no lunch (since we're specialty and judged as OD, we don't leave the cars for fear the judges will come and someone will have smudged the windows or a bird will fly by!). Everyone else in our group was done by 1:30. No time to walk around and enjoy the show, look at other cars, talk to people, get pics of other 64 1/2 details to help aide in the restoration of our car. By the time both cars were judged, most were covered, back on their trailers or the owners had left and they were all closed up. Heard numbers being called all day but had no idea what they were for. Eventually found out they were the raffle tix that were attached to our envelopes. Yeah, didn't get one of those. Why not hand them out at registration? Nothing posted about it, someone couldn't have followed up to see if we registered and maybe, just maybe brought them to us? Finally received them after we were judged.
Sunday - We did not attend the brunch. Arrived at the Expo Center at 12:45 for the 1:00 awards. They started late, the pre-chatter was painfully long and to top it off, hubby placed 3rd and I came home empty handed. I know, maybe I'll figure it out before the Mickyard. 9 points into all this (3 nationals & 1 grand national); we're not new and inexperienced in preparing and showing our cars.
1. The hosting club needs to be visible. Wear something bright and alike so we know who to ask questions.
2. Signage should be a priority. Let your guests know where to go, where to pick things up, where to check in. Don't let errors such as "National Mustang Club" slip by.
3. Have someone directing folks where to go, line up, etc. There should be someone available even after a cruise leaves to let those that are running late for whatever reason know details.
4. The MCA needs to re-consider their classing. The specialty group is being severely overlooked. We're judged last, we're awarded last and we only have single classes. Its okay for a 2004 driven Roush to compete against a 2011 trailered Roush but it's not okay in OD? We are judged under the same rules so they need to be broken down the same way. Same for the Shelbys and yes, the numbers are there. At the very minimum they need a trailered class. How is it justified that other classes have trailered, driven and trailer/driven but specialty is a single class that runs 8 years? That is not including them; it's placating them and it's insulting.
bizarro70 - I'd love to "meet others who share the same passion and learn from each other...rain or shine." but that's a little hard to do when you're not judged until 4 or 5 at every show and everyone leaves.
Let's see where do we begin??
Started bad with trailer parking, thank god for Sams Club
once you found it. Then they all left to go on the cruise and
Left no one in charge to help the people who were arriving
Front desk sent us in the wrong direction for our room.
Asked at the registration table where the meet and greet was?
They weren't sure, asked what time? Again they do t know.. This
Is their show!! Who do I ask!
Where are conservator cars? Some are together,some are scattered
Where are the display only cars? "We are just sticking them wherever"
Show cars had hotel guests parked next to them, guests were driving
Through the show site. Why they didn't have the show cars blocked off
I don't know...
If it wasn't for the fact that we got to meet up with some friends it
would have been a total waste of time.
I know the hotel did not help the situation by wanting parking spots back
But they should have told them that we are also paying guest at this hotel
Just like everyone else so why should we have to keep getting shuffled
We never got our car out of the trailer after registration, our car
was display only, the spot we got was the very last spot in the back
Parking lot(G) next to a Honda or something. Which would have been
fine if it was roped off and for show cars only.
We went to the meet and greet, food was lousy, sorry it was. They
said they were serving dinner. Meatballs, chicken wings and
Veggie sticks are not dinner. And where was the coffee not everyone
wants a beer.
I talked to people that said this was their first show and were very
Disappointed, I told them the shows are usually a lot better.
We have been doing shows since the 80's we have missed
Some through the years but this one was poorly run.
I know there probably was a few people that worked their
Butt off for this show and for some reason did not get enough
cooperation from other club members, I feel bad that their hard
work did not pay off.
Asheville MCA National
Great show, Poor Weather, Dangerous ride to get there, Biltmore was great, food entertainment wonderful, met my twin Lyle. Lots of NICE FRIENDLY MUSTANG FOLKS. Plenty of laughs! OH yeah my arm is sore from drying my car so often......
Oppurtunity to see Steve Prewitt sing "Mustang Sally" PRICELESS!
Just wondering, have you ever volunteered to help run a car event? It is a lot of hard work, and sometimes things happen and they don't go as planned. You might cut them a little slack.
Originally Posted by Jus Cruisin
I understand your frustration as a participant on being judged late at show, however when you are judged often depends on where the judging team for a class starts on the show field. The judging team often does not go by a numerical order as it pertains to a parking spot. The OD and DD divisions make up the largest percentage of the show close to 40% average of a typical show and often times the number of judges participating in these two divisions is low compared to the number of cars to be judged.
Originally Posted by abmusick
This show was an exception as to the number of judges participating, as this show was blessed with a rather large number. The Waldorf show had a very large number of cars to judge and an very low number of judges to judge the cars. Please do not complain about when or what time your are judged unless you have at least participated as a judge and seen it from the judges point of view. As far as staying with your car all day, think about this, those very same judges often have their own mustang in the show and do not have the luxury of being able to stay with their car all day and worry about smudged windows or bird droppings.
As far as being informed about no undercarriages being judged not even the regular judges or the Assistant National head judges knew until the judges meeting on Saturday which started between 10:00 and 10:30 AM. The judges meeting is open to all show participants so for useful information, especially at a weather impacted show, take some responsibility to inform yourself by attending the judges meeting. It was listed as to time and place on the show rules sheet that was passed out to all participants as they were being classified.
As far as your group being finished by 1:30 PM, I doubt your class was finished at 1:30, I am basing this upon the context of your sentence to mean your group of friends or fellow club members were finished by 1:30 PM which I am fairly sure were all in different classes other than your mustang's class.
All the individuals in this thread who are criticizing, some legitimate, need to be careful with criticism of a club and their members who are hosting a National Level MCA Show unless they have actually worked a National Level show. The difference in level of effort and complexity compared to a local level show is night and day and the two cannot be compared. One should not complain too much unless they have walked in the shoes of those who work the national shows!
Rodney Shorty Brown
MCA National Show Committee Chairman
MCA Assistant National Head Judge Modified Division
MCA National Director.
MCA # 03233
I appreciate your response. Yes, the other members of our group are in different classes. One being 1994 OD the other 2, 2005 OD. We are not members of an MCA Club (not one in our area) but routinely travel with this club as many are personal friends. In the 3 nationals and 1 grand national show we have participated in, the 2 specialty cars have been judged hours after the ODs. Some of the shows had a very small specialty showing, some (such as this past one) had a very large showing. It cannot be debated, 100% of the time, we are last to be judged, last to be awarded. We must have some pretty bad luck.
The circumstances in Waldorf, while similar were complicated because after the judges were finished with my car and started to walk away; I stopped them and asked if they were going to judge my husband’s car as well. The response, someone else must have that one as we don't have his sheet. 30 minutes later, we go find someone and they state they are not done and will get to him. When the announcements were coming across about award times for the next day and folks were pulling out, leaving... we hunted down judges once again and finally had someone admit that his sheet must have gotten lost and they came right over, new sheet in hand and judged his car.
As for complaining without participating... as stated before, there is not a MCA club in our area, the closest being over an hour away. So instead of using that time to commute to their meetings; I am president of our local all make/all model club that puts on a 4 day show event every year. We host over 200 cars every March on the coast of NC (can you say nor'easter season?) with an average of 10 - 12 volunteers (total!) for all 4 days. What we do may not be a "MCA National" show but in comparison... we're right there with one in work and logistics involved and yet we still find the time to walk around (especially during welcome reception and dinners) to welcome our guests and get to know them. Does everything go 100% correct? No, not hardly! This past year we hired what were suppose to be "professional judges" (to give our volunteers some down time) that even though they came with high credentials, they weren't worth the paper their contract was written on! Things happen but we quickly issued an apology to our participants and assured them that we were aware of the issues and that we were taking steps to prevent those issues from occurring again. Instead of becoming defensive; listening and accepting criticism are the first steps in making participants feel their presence is actually appreciated.
And before anyone balks at that comparison (I’m still not doing enough?), if you’d check your e-mail, you’d notice that on July 9th I did something I swore I wouldn’t do for many reasons; because of my current obligations to our local club, 2 businesses to run, restoring our early Mustangs and just basically wanting to 'participate' in a show and not have to work the whole time; I took the OD/DD judges test and passed. Why?, to do exactly what I was just accused of not doing… being proactive, to learn more about the judging process of MCA shows, to help with shows as I know what it’s like to NOT have volunteers, to become involved and to add a voice to a class division of the MCA that I personally feel is being overlooked.
Lastly, yes the MCA Show Requirements sheet stated that the judges’ meeting was on Saturday @ 10:30 am in the Expo Center. Nowhere on that sheet does it state that it is open to participants. While I may have been wrong to assume it was for judges only, maybe it is also wrong to assume that participants (especially new participants) know that it is open to them as well?
Hi Ms. Blur
Originally Posted by abmusick
I must apologize as I did something I should have not done and that was respond to a post without taking the proper amount of time to carefully think about my response and how it would affect others. I get tired of Keyboard commandos and I did just that to you and for that I apologize!
As far as last to be judged and last be awarded perhaps a little explanation would help. If I understand I think the two cars you participated with at Ashville were specialty cars that being a Roush, Shelby or Saleen which are judged by the same rules as the Occasional Driven classes.
That being said the very same judges whom judge the Occasional Driven classes (depending on model year) are often times judging the Specialty classes. It is not uncommon for some teams to have 20+ cars to judge simply because the number of qualified judges available is low. It takes about an average of 20 minutes to judge a car by the Occasional Driven rules some cars take longer some cars take less. So lets do the math and multiply 20 by 20 and you have 400 minutes divided by 60 minutes means roughly 6.5 hours to accomplish a potential task at hand. The time of day any car is judged depends on a couple of variables. Those being the location on the show field, where the individual judging team for a particular class decides to start and certainly depends how many cars they have to judge.
I sympathize with your situation at Waldorf as it is very likely that another team of judges did indeed have your husband's judging sheet. With the extremely large number of cars to judge there and if I remember it was 450+ cars, which means his sheet could have been lost. The Tally Room team works very hard to check and cross check but occasionally problems happen.
I do understand about being awarded last, however; the MCA rules dictate the order in which the awards are called out with the first awards being the specialty awards, Grille Medallion recipients and the Conservator group. Next it always starts with Division I Concours Trailered, goes forward with the numerical order of the Division, so with the Specialty Division being Division VIII it will always be near the end. This Division numbering is just the way the class structure developed over time not as a way of saying any one group is more special than the other.
I can appreciate your frustration and concern with my labeling about complaining without participating. My reading of the passage about what all you and your family are involved with on the local level makes me take off my hat to you and your 12 to 14 volunteers for hosting a four day show open to all makes and models.
I do appreciate your wanting to learn more and become involved with MCA and trying to understand the ins and outs of the organization by taking and passing the Occasional / Daily Driven Judging test. I was not aware of you having taken it and passing it, as I only receive notification if the modified test has been taken and passed by someone. I would hope that the appropriate Assistant National Head Judge (there are two) for your year of the OD/DD test you took, has contacted you. If they have not, send me a p.m. through the MCA website and I will follow up on that for you.
As far as the average or new participant now knowing that the Judges meeting is open to all participants that is an oversight by MCA and I apologize for that. I will look into seeing if the statement on the show rules can possibly be amended and or improved.
I wish to further elaborate on your point number 4 in your original post. I understand your frustration over judged last and awarded last with that being covered earlier in this post. The reason for the 8 year or up to 10 year spread on the specialty cars is per MCA rules a mustang must be at least 10 model years old in order to eligible for authenticity judging. MCA uses this time to develop the authenticity judging rules. Those classes being Concours Trailered, Concours Driven and Un-restored. If the owner of the mustang does not want to participate in the authenticity judging, the only other choices are Occasional Driven, Modified, Daily Driven if it meets the requirements, or Display Only.
That being said a 2004 driven Roush, if indeed driven from the owners home to a show, will not be competing against a 2011 trailered Roush. Any specialty division car (not over 10 model years old) that is trailered to an MCA show is placed in the appropriate year model Occasional Driven Trailered class (which currently is ODM 1979 -2011 model years) where it will be judged against other Occasional Driven mustangs that were trailered to the show. So all driven Roush, Shelby and Saleen mustangs that are less than 10 model years old are placed in the Specialty Division in the appropriate class. We do our best to enforce this policy, and if any participant has knowledge of a trailered car in a driven class then please report immediately to any MCA National or Assistant National Head Judge. Cars and owners have been disqualified in the past for this very reason.
The number of trailered specialty mustangs showing up at National Level shows simply do not justify a separate class for them. MCA already has some 55 different classes for mustangs at National Level shows so adding additional classes places even more of a financial burden on the local club.
I hope this answers your concerns and I do appreciate all comments and will listen to all constructive criticism to help the National Organization improve the rules and show procedures.
Rodney Shorty Brown
MCA National Show Committee Chairman
Originally Posted by Kevin C Appel
Please send me a PM through the MCA website with your class code and space number, and the cars VIN and I will look into this and see what happened.
Rodney Shorty Brown
MCA National Show Committee Chairman
MCA Assistant National Head Judge Modified.
Actually, I have been involved with helping to run quite a few car shows since 1970 or so. Also, I have attended countless others including Cobo Hall in Detroit a couple times ( I hope to attend one more Autorama at Cobo on last time with my 1967 Pro Street Chevy II in the next year or so). And yes, they always have problems/issues of some sort. Proper pre-planning that includes working closely with the event location, someone following registrations for class sizes working closely with vendors and sponsors to put together legit goody bags and making sure they get maximum exposure (if you are going to do a dash plaque, do one. Not that piece of foam we got). Make sure there are enough volunteers and that they are used efficiently. If you don't have someone with a strong management background as the lead, when things get intense everything can come apart quickly. I do have a better feeling about the Mickyard show as the Mid-Florida Mustang Club is involved. They put together a very good show each year at Waterford Lakes (around 300-400 Mustangs attend) The pre registered cars are parked by class for judging - yes it can be done. The non judged cars are still attempted to be placed with similar cars. The number of judges assembled for a show to get the cars judged in a timely manner is of up-most importance. They have to keep moving and before judging starts be told the maximum amount time spent on each car. That means keeping the chit chat with the owners being kept to a minimum. I actually would like to see the owners away from their car during judging (at Cobo the cars are judged in the middle of the night).
Originally Posted by b17drvr
I could go on but to answer your question b17drvr, yes, I have helped in and around shows and have participated in so many (over 40 years worth) that I feel that I can tell a good show from a bad one.
Good points Bizarro70. We tried to go to the Biltmore on Friday, but the line to get to the ticket booth was about 1 and ½ hours long. (Holiday traffic) But that was not the show’s fault. I would of liked to have tried the 9 hole course the hotel had, but that was closed because of the rain. Neither the hotel nor the show could have done anything different there. Seeing all the Mustangs and talking to so many great Mustang enthusiasts made the show great and we were very happy we attended it.