Membership not Required at MCA National Shows!

[azponys]

I keep reading posts about the "value" of MCA membership and the "value" of an award at an MCA show.

Well from my perspective, the ONLY reason that I continue to belong to MCA is because I am active and on the board of my local club and all the club officers have to be MCA members to be an MCA club. That's the only reason. Value? The discounts are nothing more than I can get through other clubs. I can get the X plan through my employer. The magazine is crap. It literally goes from mailbox to recycling bin in less than 24 hours. I would love it if MCA would offer a lower cost membership that did not include the magazine. The awards are more prestigious? Give me a break. My National and Grand National trophies are on the same shelves in the basement as the other trophies I have and the dart contest trophies that my wife won. In fact since abbreviated judging was used at the 2011 Grand National, that trophy is probably the least prestigious trophy I have.

MCA will increase it's membership by offering REAL value for the membership and being more inclusionary,, more welcoming, not by punitive, exclusionary measures

WOW well said! Now you better duck there gonna blast you bro!

[mustangted1963]

basicly whats wrong with this country. everyone wants all the benefits but none of responsiblity.

[jacostang]

basicly whats wrong with this country. everyone wants all the benefits but none of responsiblity.

Ok lets take that as an example.... My grandparents came here from Italy in 1910. They were asked to come and help work on the Pennsylvania RR. What kind of country would we be in if they said that you can come here, live here, pay your taxes here but you cannot be part of the AMERICAN DREAM. We would not have the great country we have today. It is our duty to question whats happening. I am a dues paying member and this also should have been discussed in the open and then if you decide to write or e mail a member of the board with your thoughts and ideas on the subject. It didnt happen that way, the decision was made and then the membership was notified.

What if your city council did this, you walk into a meeting and they said we already voted on the tax increase and sorry but you dont have a say.... How long would that last.

I am proud to be an MCA Member, but I firmly disagree with 2 decisions that they have made recently without input from the members.

I see some directors have only 1 or 2 posts so maybe they need to step up and see whats on this forum. Its a great way to communicate as long as we stay civil. The Times is also a great way to connect, they could easily put the items to be voted on on a page with comment columns when Directors are going to vote on items.

The problem will be compounded 10X if people dont know this come next year, enter to show your car and have fun and have it judged only to be told you have to be a member and pay $50 more or you can only be in Popular choice, where and I am sad to say most cars getting voted on by show participants and if your not a club member chance are you wont have a chance.

Once you pay to get into a show you should be able to participate fully.

I care about the direction we are heading thats why I am so upset, I have seen this before destroy clubs when you dont invite them in and or alienate them. There must be another way.

[390pony]

Not to sure about that, talk to SAMC Members. The other Tucson Club that I belong too. I am telling you this is a huge issue and if you come to any Copperstate, AZMCC, Wild West or SAMC Meeting yo will see that. These 4 clubs have well over 500 members in them. This is a dividing issue with Mustang Enthusiasts. I didnt even know the MCA was doing this until it was brought up at the last meeting so I came back on to see for myself. If I didnt care I would not be on here. I believe the sticker on all 6 of my Mustangs stand for something much more than it just being a decal.

Other than Copperstate, the other clubs are not MCA clubs, so how are they relevant to the discussion?

Let me give you a little history about SAMC. Around 1988, when I was the President of SAMC, several people suggested that we become an MCA-chartered club. I put it up for discussion and a vote, and there was a very strong, derisive reaction against doing so. Furthermore, in 1990, after a group of us split from SAMC and formed our own club, Old Pueblo Mustang Club, our club was blackballed by SAMC and to this day, it is a very rare occurrence for any of their members to attend our annual Regional MCA show. Why would the members of that club care what MCA does when they won't attend a local MCA show that doesn't require MCA membership?

I'd also like to ask a question. How many of you who are against the new rule are Certified or Gold Card judges? I've been judging at MCA Nationals/Grand Nationals since 1998 when Old Pueblo held the first National MCA Show in Arizona. I also administer the judges database and can tell you that the numbers of judges are decreasing, not increasing. I just culled the database of any judge that hasn't judged in the last three years. That reduced the database by more than 50 percent! Of course, I also maintain a complete database so that if anyone who was dropped happens to judge again, their information is intact and they can be added back to the active list.

How many have you judged in recent years at Nationals or Grand Nationals? I don't mean work as a scribe, I mean actually judge. So, you want everyone and their uncle to be eligible to be judged at a National/Grand National. Sorry, but we don't have the volunteers to do it. The shows are getting larger, and the judges are getting fewer. I have judged as many as eight Modified cars by myself at a Grand National and four concours cars at a National, also by myself. I am a dual Gold Card judge. That was in addition to trailering 1,000+ miles by myself to the show, and prepping my Conservator car at the show. Can you imagine how tired I was by the end of show and I still had to go another 1,000+ miles to get back home.

The numbers of OD and DD cars at these shows are increasing exponentially. We cannot continue to judge all of these cars, much less the concours and modified classes. These are MCA shows, and restricting the JUDGED cars to MCA members was a necessary step. We are not excluding non-MCA members from our shows, only from the judged classes. Either we restrict who can enter judged classes, or we restrict the numbers of entrants to the shows. I support the former, and not the latter choice.

[MartyRupp]

Other than Copperstate, the other clubs are not MCA clubs, so how are they relevant to the discussion?

Let me give you a little history about SAMC. Around 1988, when I was the President of SAMC, several people suggested that we become an MCA-chartered club. I put it up for discussion and a vote, and there was a very strong, derisive reaction against doing so. Furthermore, in 1990, after a group of us split from SAMC and formed our own club, Old Pueblo Mustang Club, our club was blackballed by SAMC and to this day, it is a very rare occurrence for any of their members to attend our annual Regional MCA show. Why would the members of that club care what MCA does when they won't attend a local MCA show that doesn't require MCA membership?

I'd also like to ask a question. How many of you who are against the new rule are Certified or Gold Card judges? I've been judging at MCA Nationals/Grand Nationals since 1998 when Old Pueblo held the first National MCA Show in Arizona. I also administer the judges database and can tell you that the numbers of judges are decreasing, not increasing. I just culled the database of any judge that hasn't judged in the last three years. That reduced the database by more than 50 percent! Of course, I also maintain a complete database so that if anyone who was dropped happens to judge again, their information is intact and they can be added back to the active list.

How many have you judged in recent years at Nationals or Grand Nationals? I don't mean work as a scribe, I mean actually judge. So, you want everyone and their uncle to be eligible to be judged at a National/Grand National. Sorry, but we don't have the volunteers to do it. The shows are getting larger, and the judges are getting fewer. I have judged as many as eight Modified cars by myself at a Grand National and four concours cars at a National, also by myself. I am a dual Gold Card judge. That was in addition to trailering 1,000+ miles by myself to the show, and prepping my Conservator car at the show. Can you imagine how tired I was by the end of show and I still had to go another 1,000+ miles to get back home.

The numbers of OD and DD cars at these shows are increasing exponentially. We cannot continue to judge all of these cars, much less the concours and modified classes. These are MCA shows, and restricting the JUDGED cars to MCA members was a necessary step. We are not excluding non-MCA members from our shows, only from the judged classes. Either we restrict who can enter judged classes, or we restrict the numbers of entrants to the shows. I support the former, and not the latter choice.

Well said!
I might add there had been a lot of complants about the plan B at the Waldorf Grand National last year and also the loss of revenue from the nonmember if the 2013 rules were in place. It is most likely that the plan B would not have been nessary if the nonmembers (who do not help with the judging) had not been in attendance. How fair was that to all of the due paying members who did not their cars judged? We need people that get involved not sit in the shade.

[FastDad]

Well said!
I might add there had been a lot of complants about the plan B at the Waldorf Grand National last year and also the loss of revenue from the nonmember if the 2013 rules were in place. It is most likely that the plan B would not have been nessary if the nonmembers (who do not help with the judging) had not been in attendance. How fair was that to all of the due paying members who did not their cars judged? We need people that get involved not sit in the shade.

I think you are forgetting that it takes more workers than just judges to put on a show. At the 2011 Grand National, most of the "other" workers were non-members. These were the folks who helped plan the show during the preceding 12 months, the folks who marked the show field, the folks who directed the spectator parking, the folks who directed the show car parking, the folks who stood out on the tarmac in the sun for three days straight and did what was necessary to get the show done. As has been pointed out by others, without those folks, there's no show. If those non-MCA folks cannot participate fully in the benefits of the show, they will not work the show. The non-members from the National Capital Region Mustang Club were working jobs OTHER than judging to ensure that there actually WAS a Grand National, never mind how big or small.

In my mind, if there's a limit on entries, then so be it. I attend lots of events where there's a maximum number of entries. If the judging community can only accommodate 300 cars, then set that as the limit and the organizing club can plan their budget, site, etc. accordingly. As was said many times during our 2011 GN planning meetings, "the worst thing we can do is over promise and under deliver". In my mind, that was the crux of the discontent over the plan B at the GN.

[fastlane65]

I keep reading posts about the "value" of MCA membership and the "value" of an award at an MCA show.

Well from my perspective, the ONLY reason that I continue to belong to MCA is because I am active and on the board of my local club and all the club officers have to be MCA members to be an MCA club. That's the only reason. Value? The discounts are nothing more than I can get through other clubs. I can get the X plan through my employer. The magazine is crap. It literally goes from mailbox to recycling bin in less than 24 hours. I would love it if MCA would offer a lower cost membership that did not include the magazine. The awards are more prestigious? Give me a break. My National and Grand National trophies are on the same shelves in the basement as the other trophies I have and the dart contest trophies that my wife won. In fact since abbreviated judging was used at the 2011 Grand National, that trophy is probably the least prestigious trophy I have.

MCA will increase it's membership by offering REAL value for the membership and being more inclusionary,, more welcoming, not by punitive, exclusionary measures

If this were Facebook, I'd hit the "LIKE" button.

[57158]

The awards are more prestigious? Give me a break. My National and Grand National trophies are on the same shelves in the basement as the other trophies I have and the dart contest trophies that my wife won. In fact since abbreviated judging was used at the 2011 Grand National, that trophy is probably the least prestigious trophy I have.

Hugh,

It is unfortunate that your perception of achieving recognition from the MCA judging community does not garner a sense of pride. The MCA invests a huge amount of time and effort to:

1) Develop, document, and communicate judging standards
2) Test and certify judges
3) Train and educate judges
4) Recognize and reward judging excellence

I dare say that you will not encounter this much training and commitment at your local car shows where Billy Bob and Becky Sue Volunteer-of-the-day conduct the judging. So even though your 2011 Grand National award was received under Plan B judging, the judges were trained and experienced in their assessment your vehicle and saw fit to recognize and reward your efforts.

Frankly, I see compliance with the 2013 rule as being a statement of recognition and support for the dedication of the MCA judging community and the efforts of the MCA as a whole.

[mustangted1963]

if the mca is bad organization that you refuse to join why would want to enter a car, or work at the show?

[390pony]

Hugh,

It is unfortunate that your perception of achieving recognition from the MCA judging community does not garner a sense of pride. The MCA invests a huge amount of time and effort to:

1) Develop, document, and communicate judging standards
2) Test and certify judges
3) Train and educate judges
4) Recognize and reward judging excellence

I dare say that you will not encounter this much training and commitment at your local car shows where Billy Bob and Becky Sue Volunteer-of-the-day conduct the judging. So even though your 2011 Grand National award was received under Plan B judging, the judges were trained and experienced in their assessment your vehicle and saw fit to recognize and reward your efforts.

Frankly, I see compliance with the 2013 rule as being a statement of recognition and support for the dedication of the MCA judging community and the efforts of the MCA as a whole.

Having been involved in this process for more than 10 years, I wholeheartedly agree!