August 24, 2012 09:55 AM
Warwick Show Award Question
I attended the Warwick, R.I. show which was fantastic by the way. A very dear friend of mine also brought his 1968 GT500KR to his first MCA show and first concours show in over 40 years of owning this car. He was thrilled to participate and spent untold funds and time in preparing his car for the show. Due to an unforeseen family issue he had to leave early Sunday AM. Much to his surprise he won a gold trophy.
He and I have both contacted Jim Silverman in regards to shipping the trophy. We have offered to ship a box to Jim and pay for full shipping back. I have even offered to pay ABOVE shipping costs in addition to shipping a box to him. There would be ZERO cost involved on Jim's part. His answer over and over? " We don't ship trophies (period)." I've offered to pay OVER shipping again . "His answer ? "We don't ship trophies (period)."
Ok, no worries. I'm trailering my car 1400 miles ONE WAY to the mustang,OK show. Spending thousands for this 3 day show. I've asked him to bring the trophy with him and I'll accept it at the OK show. Again offered to pay for any additional costs. His answer? " I only fly with carryons and would have no room" Really?? For an eleven ounce trophy?? Wow!
He did offer to have it with him at a show 500 miles from our home and we could "pick it up" there. Really? What kind of arrogant person do we have as a head judge or a show chairman for that matter?
To offer a bit of background on myself: I assist in organizing the Ford Nationals at Carlisle. Yes, the largest Ford event on the planet. I personally mailed a few dozens awards this year. I actually charged exact shipping and in some cases less to mail these awards in thanks for the people who traveled in some cases thousands of miles one way to the show.
I am appalled at the arrogance of Mr. Silverman. Just appalled. Both I and the car owner have offered above and beyond to compensate Mr. SIlverman for the inconvenience of mailing this trophy to a gentleman who won his first concours award in over 40 years of owning the car. He has given every excuse possible. I personally have no dog in this other than tying to help a dear friend who isn't that computer savvy at all. He is not internet connected and is confused why we are having so much issue with this. I also fully expect judging ramifications concerning my vehicle at future national events for now publicly insulting a National head judge. Please don't try to tell me otherwise. Human nature is human nature and Mr. Silverman has already demonstrated his audacity and arrogance in one thing and I see no reason why this character flaw won't carry over to judging my car.
Thank You Mr. Silverman for being an upstanding show chairman and breaking the heart of an original owner of car our club was founded on.
Last edited by mcaofficemanager; August 24, 2012 at 06:04 PM.
August 24, 2012 11:43 AM
MCA National Director
After last year's GN, our club shipped several awards to folks. I believe that our club absorbed the shipping cost on them.
August 24, 2012 01:59 PM
This is a first, for anyone who knows me, I don't have an arrogant bone in my body. But then again perception from emails sometimes do not portray what the person is feeling while typing. If you perceive I was arrogant I apologize, its not my nature.
Also there is a few other things I would want you to understand. I was not the show chairman of the show, and the show committee and BOD voted they would not ship trophies to people who left early. We always gladly give it to someone there who will bring it to the winner. These trophies were expensive and also delicate, and shipping would need special packaging. We have had other people who left early and we told them we were not shipping the trophies. They understood and that was it. If we start changing our tune in the middle, that in itself would cause all kinds of problems. I know you asked if I can take it with me to the Grand National. I travel with carry-ons and pack very tightly, and yes the trophies are not heavy but they would take up allot of room in my luggage. I don't think I am being unreasonable offering the trophy at our show at Mustangs Unlimited. It is not 500 miles from your town more like 350, about a 5 hour ride. I will forward your concerns to the show chairman, I think he maybe going to the GN. Again I went through each email and it concerns me you put my replies in the way you did. I purposely tried to explain the situation, and ended the emails with a "sorry", and the sorry was more than a word.
August 24, 2012 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by JimS
Mr. Silverman, I will attempt to address your comments one at a time.
and the show committee and BOD voted they would not ship trophies to people who left early. Why? When other national and grand national events have done so. Are there no exceptions for family issues? What is the reason if someone offered to send a box and postage PLUS extra as we have done? What is the reason for that?
These trophies were expensive and also delicate, and shipping would need special packaging. A box with bubble wrap would be fine. I have shipped glass trophies which are as or more fragile than the RI ones. Dozens as a matter of fact with zero issues.
We have had other people who left early and we told them we were not shipping the trophies. They understood and that was it. Please see above sentence under the word arrogance in the dictionary sir.
If we start changing our tune in the middle, that in itself would cause all kinds of problems.What problems?
and yes the trophies are not heavy but they would take up allot of room in my luggage. They are 8 inches by 5 inches by 3 inches.
I don't think I am being unreasonable offering the trophy at our show at Mustangs Unlimited. It is not 500 miles from your town more like 350, about a 5 hour ride. You are most certainly being unreasonable. So, my friend needs to drive 500 miles (I've looked it up) one way to get this? If not than what is your definition of unreasonable? Even at 350 miles you find this a reasonable solution?
Again I went through each email and it concerns me you put my replies in the way you did.This conversation started with the utmost discretion via PMs and email. I chose to post this to show the membership the arrogance portrayed by somone who claims to have the membership in his best intrest.
and ended the emails with a "sorry", and the sorry was more than a word.
And the sorry gets the gentleman his trophy how?
Sir, In either case the gentleman will not renew nor attend any additional national events because of your attitude towards him. I organize events that are larger than all the nationals and grand national combined. I make exceptions all the time when neccesary as I want my attendees to feel welcomed and realize that things come up and it's those who paid thousands or hundreds or twenty dollars that make the events possible in the first place. I spend my own time and money to send out post show trophies. I've offered to send you a box and extra postage for your trouble. This is where we are at. It really is a shame and although I will continue to visit every national event with MY vehicle I can only hope that there will be no " good ole' boy" mentality when it comes to judging MY car although I suspect there will be reciprocity shown towards my vehicle. I was reluctant to even get involved in the first place for fear of future judging animosity. That was until I read your replies via email to this gentleman. I couldn't let a friend be treated this way.
Good day Sir.
August 24, 2012 08:00 PM
If this member is offering to send a box with pre-paid return shipping, I see no reason why that can't work. Although, under the circumstances, it shouldn't be necessary. Compassion for others in the hobby transcends any written rules.
August 24, 2012 08:12 PM
I couldn't agree more. As I mentioned earlier I have personally mailed out dozens of awards this year alone. I feel that I have an obligation to make sure my attendees have a great time and if a few dollars of shipping will make a difference so be it. That being said I wouldn't ask that of anyone. The gentleman offered to send a box and shipping to cover any and all costs and was met with a flat out " Sorry, no." I feel obligated to get involved since I encouraged him to join and enter his car after owing it for 40+ years. It is a time machine! I honestly thought that Mr. Silverman would mail it out or at the least bring it with him to OK where I am trailering my car over 1400 miles one way. I was shocked at his response and appealed to him again with no results. I am shocked quite frankly over his response.
Originally Posted by CharlesTurner
This reason I got involved is because I convinced the owner to join and trailer his car 6+ hours to the show for the first time in over 40 years. He is true gentleman and a great friend. The whole scenario has upset him (rightfully so). In either case there can be no good outcome as he and I are both upset and Mr. Silverman, National head judge and show Co-chair is unwilling to compromise for fear of "problems".
Edit: Ah, to reaffirm my point, the title of the thread was altered. Did I strike to close to home Mr. Silverman? Should I also expect reciprocity in judging when I attend future national events? Will you let your personal feelings affect your judging team when judging my car? Since I have now publicly "called you out" will I be a pariah at future events concerning my judged vehicle? I suspect I already know the answer to those questions but only time will tell. I also suspect this post will be altered as well.
This simple request has gotten so out of hand that a new member is upset and another member now fears of judging ramifications because of insulting a head judge. Great camaraderie.
Last edited by aroth28; August 24, 2012 at 08:39 PM.
August 24, 2012 09:26 PM
As an MCA member, you have a right to voice your opinion, but would also suggest you contact others such as the MCA president to help resolve this issue. While Steve and I may have had differences in the past, I do know he is very compassionate about the club and members and will do the right thing.
August 24, 2012 10:09 PM
Last comments on this matter.
I did say I would forward the matter to the Show Chairman, I believe he is going to the grand national, and is driving.
Second, I got conflicting statements on the reason he left the show. I know you said he had unforeseen family issues is why he had to leave. But I received an email earlier from a lady at Parker Oil company, saying "Unfortunately Mr. Parker was unable to stay for the awards because he had to return to Maryland for a business meeting" (copy and pasted from the email)
I just wish we would be a little more correct in what one is saying.
August 24, 2012 10:57 PM
How about giving this member the benefit of a doubt and stop bickering over who said what. There wouldn't be any shows without entrants.
August 24, 2012 11:02 PM
I was not the Show Chair, not even the Co Chair. I said I forwarded it to the Show Chair. He is going to the GN.